Ducks Unlimited Podcast

In this episode of the Ducks Unlimited Podcast, Matt Harrison and Nathan Ratchford dive deep into the world of sporting dogs with Karl Gunzer from Purina. The discussion covers why fat and protein matter for working dogs, how to prepare your dog for hunting season, common mistakes first-time dog owners make, and cold weather precautions to keep your dog safe. Karl also shares stories from his years in field trials and offers advice for building a strong bond with your dog. This is an informative and engaging episode for anyone passionate about hunting and dog care.

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SPONSORS:
Purina Pro Plan: The official performance dog food of Ducks Unlimited
Whether you're a seasoned hunter or just getting started, this episode is packed with valuable insights into the world of waterfowl hunting and conservation.

Bird Dog Whiskey and Cocktails:
Whether you’re winding down with your best friend, or celebrating with your favorite crew, Bird Dog brings award-winning flavor to every moment. Enjoy responsibly.

Creators and Guests

Host
Matt Harrison
DUPodcast Outdoor Host
Host
Nathan Ratchford
DUPodcast Contributor

What is Ducks Unlimited Podcast?

Ducks Unlimited Podcast is a constant discussion of all things waterfowl; from in-depth hunting tips and tactics, to waterfowl biology, research, science, and habitat updates. The DU Podcast is the go-to resource for waterfowl hunters and conservationists. Ducks Unlimited is the world's leader in wetlands conservation.

VO:

The following episode of the DU podcast features a video component. For the full experience, visit the Ducks Unlimited channel on YouTube. Subscribe and enjoy.

VO:

Can we do a mic check, please? Everybody, welcome back to the Ducks Unlimited podcast. I'm your host, doctor Mike Brasher. I'm your host, Katie Burke. I'm your host, doctor Jared Henson.

VO:

And I'm your host, Matt Harrison. Welcome to the Ducks Unlimited podcast, the only podcast about all things waterfowl. From hunting insights to science based discussions about ducks, geese, and issues affecting waterfowl and wetlands conservation in North America. The DU podcast, sponsored by Purina Pro Plan, the official performance dog food of Ducks Unlimited. Purina Pro Plan, always advancing.

VO:

Also proudly sponsored by Bird Dog Whiskey and Cocktails. Whether you're winding down with your best friend or celebrating with your favorite crew, Bird Dog brings award winning flavor to every moment. Enjoy responsibly.

Matt Harrison:

Hey, everyone, and welcome back to the Ducks Limited podcast. I'm your cohost, Matt Harrison. Joining with us today, to my left, also one of our very own, Nathan Ratchford, and our guest today on the Ducks Limited podcast, and also a great friend of mine, mister Carl Gunzer, is the director of the Sporting Dog Group at Purina. We are so glad to have you all, mister Karl. Thank you so much for making a trip down.

Matt Harrison:

How you been?

Karl Gunzer:

I'm good. I'm good. Good to be here. I wish we were back in a duck pond like last time I saw you, but

Matt Harrison:

that's alright. I know. You have me I got to know mister Carl a couple years ago. We I think that was the first time we had ever met was at Honey Break Yeah. In Louisiana.

Karl Gunzer:

Yep.

Matt Harrison:

And we met there, got to spend a couple days chasing some ducks, and that was the beginning of our relationship, and the rest is history, and he's been a great friend of mine. And we are gonna be talking about a little bit of all things dogs. Mister Carl has an incredible background that's extremely interesting in in this industry, and I'm gonna let you talk a little bit about that, and Nathan's also gonna chime in. He's very passionate about sporting dogs, and he's very knowledgeable too, and I wanted him to join on because I know both of y'all know a good amount about our wonderful sporting dog. So before we get into all that though, mister Carl, I just kinda want you to give our listeners a little bit of a background of kinda how you got started, and also how you ended up at the position that you're in at Purina.

Karl Gunzer:

Well, I

Karl Gunzer:

don't know that we've got time for, like, the whole story, but I'll do the and I don't know how exciting or interesting it is, but, you know, I grew up just a passionate dog guy. Like, I had dogs and messed with dogs from the time I was 10, 12 years old, training dogs for neighbors, you know, we had our own hunting dogs. And I went to college, I had a background in wildlife management, I went to work for the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation just out of college. But the whole time I was doing that, I was competing and training my Labradors. And so I was running hunt tests and started doing some field trials in Montana, and I took a week's vacation, went to California to train with a pretty well known trainer out there in California, and at the end of the week of vacation, he offered me a job.

Karl Gunzer:

I quit the Elk Foundation, moved to California, and then spent the next you know, twenty some years of my life training dogs. And so I did field trials. I was in Montana in the summer and Texas in the winter or wherever I would sometimes go to Florida or California or, you know, wherever there was different circuits or different trials to run, you know. And so I loved it. I had a great it was a great job.

Karl Gunzer:

It was a lot of fun. I trained a couple high point derby dogs. I trained a Canadian national champion, several national finalists in The United States, which actually the national championship is going on right now today. It's the eighth series of the national. So anyway, I love training dogs, and I got to know all the folks from Purina and really appreciated how much Purina sponsored the sport, how much they did for, you know, health and nutrition and dog care, and I just kinda became a big fan of the company.

Karl Gunzer:

I loved And long story short, they offered me a job to come to work in the sporting dog division, you know, sponsoring events and organizations, kinda like we do now with Ducks Unlimited and different nonprofits. So I did that about thirteen years ago. I had quit training and came to Purina and have been here since. So

Matt Harrison:

Wow.

Karl Gunzer:

It's it's been fun. I miss I miss training and competing, but of course, I still have dogs and still mess around with dogs. I'm not competing right now, but, you know, I may do it again someday.

Matt Harrison:

That's awesome.

Nathan Ratchford:

What got you in Labradors to begin with, Carl?

Karl Gunzer:

You know, that was just our family breed growing up. You know, my dad was a duck hunter and, you know, I grew up on the Chesapeake Bay and just had labs from, you know, I could remember. And so that's sort of what we yeah. Just That's what we had. And I don't know.

Karl Gunzer:

They're they're a great breed. Obviously, there's lots of great retrievers, yeah, that was just sort of what got me going.

Matt Harrison:

Did you ever really now that you can kinda look back on your career and your path, did you see when you first started out with training, did you see yourself in a position like this that you are today?

Karl Gunzer:

Not at all. I mean, not at all. I I didn't see myself training dogs for a living. Like, I think my mom cried when I told her I was quitting the UP Foundation, you know, and, like, selling my house, moving to California, and she's like, what? But, you know, that's one of those things.

Karl Gunzer:

And that's something that's really I've found universal. When you talk to any dog trainer, nobody thought from the beginning, like Yeah. That's what I'm gonna do for a living. Maybe a few people that, you know, kinda grew up in it or, you know, there's there's obviously a few, but a lot of people, the story is kind of like, you know, they had a real job, they were doing something, they got training, they were passionate about it, they just couldn't get enough of it, and it just morphed into a career.

Nathan Ratchford:

Yeah. What does it mean for you, Carl? I mean, obviously Purina Purina is very active across lots of different areas from sporting dogs to organizations like ourselves and supporting them. But in the competition world in particular, having been on the other side of it. Right?

Nathan Ratchford:

Yeah. And seeing how much Purina supports those organizations and and sporting dogs and the people behind it, What does it mean to you to be on the other side of it now?

Karl Gunzer:

You know, whenever whenever things kinda get tough or it feels a lot like a real job, I think about that and I go, you know, I'm really fortunate to be able to sort of, like, give back to what I loved and stay involved with it even though I'm not, you know, actively competing anymore, I still get to be around it, I get to help promote it. Yeah. I think help make the sport better. You know, kind of Purina's mantra is, you know, people and pets are better together. That's sort of our corporate philosophy.

Karl Gunzer:

And so things that, you know, anytime people are doing something with their dog, it's good for the dog and it's good for the person, you know. So I think that's part of what is Purina's culture is to try and and nurture those sports and the the human dog bond.

Matt Harrison:

And you've done an incredible job. I know just through the partnership, what Purina does for Ducks Unlimited, y'all have been incredible. You've done a phenomenal job in, like you said, pushing that needle forward for making this sport better. You know, you've done a great job with We we are we are Purina through and through. We truly appreciate the partnership, you know, that we have with you guys, and we're super thankful for

Nathan Ratchford:

it.

Karl Gunzer:

Well, you know, working for the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation when I was there years ago, I kinda understood the value of corporate partnerships and what they bring to the table. Yeah. And it's not just money, it's yeah, of course the money's helpful, but those kinds of partnerships that go across all different levels of the business, whether it's from fundraising banquets to podcasts to whatever, you know, magazine stuff, it's it's a great relationship. And I think, you know, I always Jeremy Smith always tells me, and that maybe he's just being nice, but that, you know, Purina really is one of the is sort of the model for the corporate partner. We're involved in sustainability initiatives with funding for rice initiatives and different things.

Karl Gunzer:

So we're we're active on the sustainability. We're active with the volunteers Yep. Part of the media. So it's really fun to be able to be across different parts of the business. They all are.

Karl Gunzer:

Yeah. Ducks Unlimited Expo.

Matt Harrison:

Yeah. That's what I just thinking. DUX. Y'all had probably the coolest setup

Nathan Ratchford:

at DUX. Demonstrations were awesome. Incredible.

Matt Harrison:

Like, I heard so much positive feedback about y'all setup and the demonstrations, like Nathan said. I thought it was a really cool idea of how y'all, you know, put the icebox there where people could put their hand

Karl Gunzer:

in there see. Like, y'all

Matt Harrison:

just had a lot of a lot of really neat things there. It was right across from our duck den, so we got to see a lot of the interaction that y'all had going on there.

Nathan Ratchford:

And the questions.

Matt Harrison:

Right? The questions. Yeah.

Nathan Ratchford:

People who are, genuinely interested in in doing more with their dog. Right? And back to that mantra, people and dogs. Right? I mean

Matt Harrison:

That's right.

Nathan Ratchford:

People are just looking to get a little bit better this year in the duck blind.

Karl Gunzer:

You know? If And anybody's listening and they didn't go, and this is not a plug for Purina, this is a plug for DU Expo, if you didn't go, you should go because it was it was a lot

Matt Harrison:

of fun.

Karl Gunzer:

Yeah. I mean, it was it was packed. There was from educational stuff to new gear and equipment, and I don't know. It was just it was an amazing event.

Matt Harrison:

And to thank it

Karl Gunzer:

It had all

Matt Harrison:

these years back.

Karl Gunzer:

I know.

Matt Harrison:

I know. I mean, I I I think this upcoming year for DUX, I don't wanna put any major expectations. Every like, when I tell you the buzz as soon as DUX ended this year, the buzz already for next year were just like it was incredible. So I think this next year is gonna be even a a little bit bigger of a push too, and I'm super excited.

Karl Gunzer:

We're gonna have to expand the convention center.

Matt Harrison:

I know. That's fine. Keep adding on to it. No. Well, we wanna talk a little bit about dogs.

Matt Harrison:

Yeah. And a lot of our listeners either have a dog or are eventually gonna get a dog or know somebody that has a dog, and it's something that I find super interesting, just learning about. So we're gonna dive into just some questions, kinda have conversations about, you know, some things that we've talked about between me and Nathan and you just to kinda chitchat and kinda give our listeners a little bit of knowledge. And one of the first things I wanna talk about, and I think it's something very important, and I know that you believe it's important, Nathan does too, but it's nutrition, right, for the dogs. And, of course, you know that that's important because that's what purine That's right.

Matt Harrison:

But how important is it for the endurance of a dog and also the recovery of a dog after a long day in the blind? Right? Because there are a lot of duck hunters, you know, especially your hardcore duck hunters, they're not running one dog one day and then getting another one. They're running that same dog, and it's super important. But I want you to just elaborate a little bit more on that on how important nutrition is for endurance and recovery.

Karl Gunzer:

Yep. Well, and it's kinda like it depends. I think the first day that you and I hunted together, like, there was not a lot of endurance needed. You know? I think Matt went further than the dog trying to chase down a duck, but no.

Karl Gunzer:

What are you eating, man?

Matt Harrison:

Chicken too.

Karl Gunzer:

So, you know, I think the first thing is a reality check. Right? Are you hunting four times a year on a Saturday and you shoot half a dozen ducks maybe or something like that? If that's the case, you don't really need to do a lot of anything extra. But for that guy that is a guide or like, you know, some of the really serious guys that are like, so, you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna make all 60, you know, or whatever that deal is, then it becomes really important.

Karl Gunzer:

Yeah. Especially if it gets cold because that really saps the heat. Then if they're fortunate and, you know, they have a big group, shoot a lot of birds, the dog's working hard. So the main thing to know is the the real fuel in food is fat. That's dogs are preferential fat burners, so that's that's their biggest source of energy.

Karl Gunzer:

You know, protein builds muscle, muscle mass, carbs are definitely fuel, but the best source of fuel is really fat. And so if you're gonna work a dog hard, and especially if it's cold, high fat diets are better. And and protein helps build muscle, so you really want both. So like a thirty twenty formula is great if you've got a hardworking dog and you're gonna hunt them hard. I think I even see a bigger need for that type of formula with your upland dogs because when they go out, even if you're not getting a lot of birds, they're running the whole time, you know, where waterfowl dogs, you know, they could be sitting a lot of the time, but the cold really saps energy from a dog.

Nathan Ratchford:

So That's a great point, Carl. I mean, they in a really cold climate, you know, our friends up in North Dakota, they're burning energy just shivering. Right? I mean, shaking like this. Right?

Nathan Ratchford:

Yeah. I mean, it just that just to stay warm because their body needs that. Right? Yeah. So it's a great point that, I mean, cold weather, no matter what, you're gonna be needing that nutrition.

Karl Gunzer:

Yeah. That's right.

Matt Harrison:

And Go ahead. Sorry.

Karl Gunzer:

I was gonna say, and like I said, it's it's how much they're working. The recovery is an interesting part. You asked about recovering in that, and if they are and I guess maybe the next thing before that is is their body condition, right? Like if they're lean, you know, dogs, hunting dogs should be lean. They shouldn't be overweight.

Karl Gunzer:

If you're gonna hunt them really hard all season, you might want them, you know, coming into the hunting season with a couple extra pounds, but not 10% overweight or something.

Nathan Ratchford:

So I tell my wife. Yeah. I'm just getting ready for hunting season. That's it.

Karl Gunzer:

Well played. Yeah. Yeah. So there's actually this body condition score chart. It's a purina, you know, and it it goes from like one to nine, and you look at it, you look and see if you can feel their ribs or their abdominal tuck or those kind of things.

Karl Gunzer:

And so, you know, a little bit is having that dog maybe in shape before season, getting him on that higher fat diet ahead of season. So that's another kind of misconception is a lot of people will say, well, I'm just gonna feed them an adult formula all year, and then once I start hunting them and they get working hard, then I'm gonna feed them a higher fat, higher protein. It takes a dog, you know, eight to twelve weeks before their body really is utilizing that high fat diet Wow. To the best of its ability. So you really need to switch that dog to the higher fat diet ahead of Well before that, yeah.

Karl Gunzer:

Yeah. Wow. Yeah. It's kinda the way I would explain it, and some scientists was gonna, like, roll their eyes, but the way I'll explain it is if you decide you're gonna go on a keto diet and try to get your body into ketosis and all that, so you're losing weight, Like, the first day you eat a steak, your body's not in ketosis. Right?

Karl Gunzer:

You know what I mean? Like, day the first day you say, well, okay, I'm eating steak today. Your body has not shifted. Correct. It's where it's drawing its energy and nutrition from, and it's

VO:

sort of

Karl Gunzer:

the same with the dogs, you know, it takes a little while. The other maybe caution is you don't want a hard switch from a lower fat diet to a higher fat diet. That's when, you know, you always wanna transition diets. You shouldn't just, you know Abruptly. Abruptly switch.

Karl Gunzer:

You can get away with it better going from a high fat diet to a low fat diet than you can a low fat diet to a high fat diet. Take a little more time that way. Just because it requires, you know, different things from pancreas and all that, like, can get pancreatitis or different issues, loose stools, or just not their body isn't burning that fat perfectly yet.

Matt Harrison:

Yeah. Wow. That's so interesting. You know, a lot of the stuff you just touched on, I can remember last year having the podcast episode with Doctor. Ruth Ann.

Matt Harrison:

Yes. A lot of the things we discussed, I can remember one of her points was, she said, if you really truly think about it, dog diet and stuff, a lot of the same is true to a human. Right? Now, of course, there's all kinds of, you know, factors that go into but exactly what you just said, you know, if we're gonna get on a diet or anything like that, you don't just go straight into that diet, or if you're gonna go a fast, you normally don't just, boom, no food, and it's the same thing, you know, with the dog, the things you're feeding them between protein, fats, it all plays a role. So just when you do abruptly stop or you do completely change something quick, it takes a minute for you Yep.

Matt Harrison:

To adjust and and get climate to that.

Karl Gunzer:

And and just like, you know, a lot of people, and maybe we'll get to that, I don't know about when to feed and and all that, just like you wouldn't eat a big meal and then go swimming in the pool, right, you know, as a kid, whatever. I mean, you don't wanna feed a dog and then go hunting right away. Know, a lot of people say, oh, he's gonna need food to stay warm. Well, when you feed the dog, when he eats, you know, blood flow goes to his stomach to digest that food and he's he's trying to do that. If he's also having to run, he needs blood flow to his muscles and and to his heart and all that.

Karl Gunzer:

So they really don't digest well with a full Yeah. You know, when they're running, or put it the other way, they they don't run well if they're digesting food.

Matt Harrison:

So You stole my next question, Paul. So, yeah. That was the next question is, can you can can we go into a little bit more detail on that, on maybe how how do we know that time frame when we should feed before a hunt, pre hunt, and post hunt for best energy and, you know, digestion for for our dogs? Like, how can we is it a visual thing we're looking for? Is it something that we get to learn as we, you know, are around our dog more?

Matt Harrison:

Like, how can we kinda put a time frame on that to best know when to feed our dogs pre hunt or

Nathan Ratchford:

post Yeah. And one thing I always see come up is, like, both the timing. Right? Mhmm. Like, how long before or after and frequency.

Nathan Ratchford:

Yep. Right? That's what I always see. It's like, should I move it to once a day, right, versus twice a day? So if you could speak on those.

Nathan Ratchford:

Two Yeah. Going off what you're saying, Matt.

Karl Gunzer:

So let's think about it this way for a second.

Nathan Ratchford:

Mhmm.

Karl Gunzer:

We don't want food in their stomach when they're exercising. So now how long does it take that food to get out of their stomach after they've eaten it? Well, part of that depends on a couple of things. One is how much they ate, right? So if they let's let's take a a typical Labrador, and for just kind of square numbers, I'm gonna say they maybe eat a pound a day.

Karl Gunzer:

Like, if it's an active hardworking lab, I'd say four cups a day. There's lots of them that eat a lot less than that, but in the middle of hunt season, you're probably gonna be feeding four cups a day. So that four cups is gonna take several hours to get out of their stomach. Now once it's out of their stomach, it's still in their intestines and still they're carrying that weight and all that stuff around. It's not getting through their whole system, but at least it's out of their stomach.

Karl Gunzer:

So there's been a few studies that show, and this is we're gonna talk a little bit about whether we should wet food or not. There's been studies that show that if you have dry kibble, it takes like, you know, just kibble, no water added to it, it can take up to six hours to get out of the stomach and into the into the intestine. Yeah. If you wet it, you know, it should be between two and four hours because what that kibble helps absorb water and that helps it digest. So I would say kind of my minimum number is two hours of time in between feeding and then exercising.

Karl Gunzer:

It would be better to be more. Yeah. But if you've got a dog, especially if it's maybe got hypoglycemia or something, or it's a really hard keeper and you need to feed it twice a day, you know, let's say it's a dog that it needs six cups to to keep its weight on when it's really working hard. That's usually a young year to 18 old male that's being trained hard, worked hard. Of those dogs can be really hard to keep weight on, and if they need more than like four cups a day, I really think it should be split, so you're never putting too much in their stomach at one time.

Karl Gunzer:

So in those cases, I would give them maybe a couple cups in the morning, make sure they have at least a couple hours before they exercise, and then feed them, you know, the majority of their meal in the evening. You know, I can tell you back when I was training, what we would do is those dogs that needed a morning meal, we would feed them first thing in the morning, you know, like 06:00, and then when we're training, we would we would leave them on the truck a little longer before we ran them. You know, we'd work other dogs and try and give those guys as much time as they could. And again, if it's one or two retrieves, it's not that big a deal, if, you know, they're running and they'll the way they'll tell you is they'll break with diarrhea. I mean, if they're running a bunch, you know, and I think, you know, you see it the most in the bird dogs, that that stress induced diarrhea.

Karl Gunzer:

I mean, you get a lot of these bird dogs that get running and if they're not cleaned out before they run, they're gonna have diarrhea after So they start I just think giving them that little bit of time in the mornings helps. Ideally, I'd say with an adult dog, not a puppy, I think up to at least a year old, they should probably get, you know, two meals a day if they're needing it, but I think ideally I would say it's best to feed once a day, but there's nothing wrong with splitting it twice a day. Again, I would just make sure that do the smaller meal in the morning and then give them at least a couple hours before any exercise. Wow.

Nathan Ratchford:

And talk a little bit about how, you know, that fat, even though it's given some people, I mean, they're like, oh, I need to feed them in the morning. He needs to have energy. Right? Talk a little bit about how that that fat, that long term fuel in the evening, they still have it available.

Karl Gunzer:

Yes. Well, here's a way to think about it. That That food is not really available for the muscles. So what we're we're feeding the muscles so that they can run, right? That food, it's not available to the muscles until like twelve I mean, know, the food in the stomach is not doing any good.

Karl Gunzer:

The food that's undigested in the intestines is not doing any good. It's not until, you know, that food is being absorbed into the muscle that it really is effective. So here's the thing to think about, the sled dog racers, they typically will feed their last meal twelve, fifteen, twenty hours before the race. They're not feeding them anything the morning before the race. After that first day of the race, everything else is ketchup and they're just trying to keep as much food in them as they can, but, you know, they don't start with food in their digestive system.

Karl Gunzer:

They start with everything broken down into the muscle.

Nathan Ratchford:

So it's not even available till twelve hours. Exactly. I think that's Exactly. That's really insightful.

Matt Harrison:

Yeah. Very much.

Karl Gunzer:

I mean,

Matt Harrison:

because I feel like what you said, Nathan, a lot of hunter not not even just hunters, trainers, hunters, anytime you're training a dog, a lot of people think, I gotta get something in their stomach, you know, that they can have energy out there that can feed their muscles, and like you said, it's not even until that twelve hour timeframe that you're even benefiting the muscles Right. From the food that you're feeding.

Karl Gunzer:

We we probably liken some of it to, you know, you've been out there in the morning, you've been cold, you come back and you have a warm bowl of soup or something like and it was like, man, you feel a lot better. And I'm sure that putting a little warm liquid in the dog and a little bite at lunchtime or something like that is not gonna hurt. You just don't wanna do a big meal where you're putting a lot in there. I think it's probably more important that they're drinking staying hydrated. That's probably the best thing we can do during the day is make sure that they're drinking something because most most duck dogs I know, when they're hunting, they're not interested in water, food, anything, right?

Matt Harrison:

They're just hunting.

Karl Gunzer:

Yeah. Yeah. Kinda like, not like me. I'm probably more

Nathan Ratchford:

eating snacks. Yeah.

Matt Harrison:

Feeding my honey buns. Hoping a bird flies by. Honey buns. Yeah.

Nathan Ratchford:

What is your go to snack?

Karl Gunzer:

Golly. I don't know. It's hard to beat a Pop Tart in a in in a It is. Blind bag. Yeah.

Matt Harrison:

But if you sit on that Pop Tart or you smush up against it in your blind bag, go down eat it. Here you

Karl Gunzer:

can go. We need to go down a rabbit hole of the Pop Tart cases I

Matt Harrison:

used to have one. Our Noah friend did. Those were incredible. A case for a Pop Tart hole. Wow.

Karl Gunzer:

Yeah. You gotta ask Jimbo about those.

Matt Harrison:

Yeah. They're incredible. Now, okay. So we talked a little bit about pre hunt. Yep.

Matt Harrison:

Now let's talk a little bit about post hunt feeding.

Karl Gunzer:

Mhmm.

Matt Harrison:

You know, I know a lot of hunters that as soon as their dog gets back, they're like, I gotta feed my dog. What is typical best practice for feeding a dog post hunt?

Karl Gunzer:

There could be a couple different philosophies that are all good. Mhmm. One thing I'll say is is dogs do well on a routine, so feeding about the same time every day is a good thing. They don't, you know, they kinda know what to expect. However, I'll tell you, it's also true that if a dog has been exercising, there's a period of time, you know, within forty five minutes of when they were working, that they're sort of primed for nutrient uptake afterwards.

Karl Gunzer:

So there's a lot of they used to come out with, you know, in fact, Purina had them, we don't have them available now, but it was called a Refuel bar. It was like a glycogen replacement, and you would give that bar within thirty minutes of exercise, and that would really help glycogen replacement. The muscles are sort of primed to uptake that. So you could also say that if you want to have a lot of time between digestion and working again, there's nothing wrong at all with, if you do a morning hunt, come back and you like to feed your dog at noon that day, you know, you get back in from the hunt and feed them their meal, I don't think that's a bad strategy at all. I think, you know, it would maybe help with absorption of the food and then give them plenty of time to get everything processed through their system.

Karl Gunzer:

Yeah.

Matt Harrison:

So Yeah. Wow.

Karl Gunzer:

I would say typically, I would probably advocate for dogs being on a sort of a regular schedule, like whatever it is, 05:00, 06:00, 07:00, they just kind of work that way. But especially if you're trying to catch up, if they're skinny, you know, give them a a meal when you get done Yeah. At the end of the hunt, I think it's not a bad idea.

Matt Harrison:

Yeah. Wow. That's all so cool just to to learn.

Karl Gunzer:

Yeah. It's sort of common sense, but it's sort of not. You know what I mean? Like, some of it is, and people worry about things. It just depends.

Karl Gunzer:

You don't really wanna do lunch a big lunch if you're gonna go hunting in the evening, though. Like, if you're hunting in evening, then then I would

Matt Harrison:

And like you said, this may be common sense to a lot of people, but there's also a lot of people that are first time dog owners that have no idea about any practice that they should follow as far as feeding, as far as what to look for when it comes to that. So I'm sure this is benefiting somebody. It's benefited me just listening.

Nathan Ratchford:

I know it's not on the list map, but we're talking about, I mean, how important hydration is too, Carl. Yeah. Do you go about encouraging that in a dog when it's cold out and they really don't wanna take it? Do you You bet. And if you are adding it to the the food, how much water?

Nathan Ratchford:

Or do you Yeah. Versus ratio to that type of thing.

Karl Gunzer:

Good question. So I always I I float my dog's food every day. So even hunting season, think it's really important, especially if you're like on a trip. It does make it a little more palatable, you know, so warm water even more so. So if you've got like a picky eater, you can put a little warm water on the food, maybe mix in either some canned food with it, or I tend to use Fortiflora, which is a probiotic, but it tastes really good, so we'll add Fortiflora to water or to their dinner.

Nathan Ratchford:

I've done that too.

Karl Gunzer:

Yeah. Yeah.

Nathan Ratchford:

I really like it when it's yeah. They do.

Karl Gunzer:

So, you know, I think back to kind of growing up when we'd hunt on the Chesapeake Bay and it was saltwater and you'd be out there, we never even thought about the poor dogs, you know, where it was like, hopefully they drink something somewhere, they'll probably they'll probably live through the day, you know, maybe not. It's just, you know, they're pretty amazing what they can do. Like, if you're in a boat and, you know, you're in saltwater and you they don't have fresh water, I would probably encourage somebody to bring fresh water now that I know more and try and get them to drink a little bit of fresh water in the blind or in their boat. But if you're hunting for three or four hours, they're fine. Just make sure they get water as soon as they get back.

Karl Gunzer:

The biggest time to make sure a dog has water is after it eats. About, you know, an hour to two hours after dinner, they really need water at that time. So

Nathan Ratchford:

why is that?

Karl Gunzer:

To help with the digestion of the food.

Nathan Ratchford:

Gotcha.

Karl Gunzer:

You know what mean? That that food, the kibble, it needs water to absorb.

Nathan Ratchford:

And how much, like, when you're floating your dog's food, how much like, are you just getting enough to cover or are you adding yeah.

Karl Gunzer:

No. I'd say, like, you might do your cereal.

VO:

You know

Nathan Ratchford:

what I mean? That of ratio.

Karl Gunzer:

Now some people like more milk than other people, but I would say

Matt Harrison:

I don't eat my cereal milk.

Karl Gunzer:

Yeah. But it's kind of yeah. Just maybe up to

Nathan Ratchford:

the top

Karl Gunzer:

of the food. You don't wanna overdo it. Yeah. And then it gets hard for them to eat. If it's like, you know, if it's drowned down in there, then they're biting through it.

Matt Harrison:

Enough to float it a little bit.

Karl Gunzer:

Yeah. Just enough to kinda get almost to the top of it. It's too much, you'll see they gotta bite it, and then there's just water everywhere. It's kind of difficult for them.

Nathan Ratchford:

Yeah. I know, Matt, you had some other questions on cold weather and stuff, I wanna ask while we're kinda on these subjects and we're talking about Fortiflora, traveling with your dog. Yep. Right? Yes.

Nathan Ratchford:

How do you go about Talk a little bit about how probiotics help with a dog's gut, right, and how dogs store stress in their gut, that type of thing.

Karl Gunzer:

You bet. I'll tell you my best story is for fifteen years, we would go from Montana to Texas in about three days. And we you know, when you've got 24 to 36 dogs going, you know, that trip, invariably, you've got dogs getting diarrhea in their crates and their kennels, and you're, you know, trying to clean them out at some rest area somewhere, you know, it's that kind of travel with a lot of dogs is is a lot of stress, not only on the dog, but on the dog owner. And, you know, you're trying to make sure that wherever you're airing them, they're not finding chicken bones. It's just like, it's it's tough.

Karl Gunzer:

And we would invariably have dogs getting diarrhea. And the last three years that I was traveling were the first three years that Fortiflora came out. And we started before the trip at Bob West's, who was my predecessor, at his recommendation, we started dosing the dogs about three days ahead. We put them all on Fortiflora and we left them on Fortiflora through the trip. And I would say I went from maybe a half a dozen dogs starting to get diarrhea on that trip to almost none.

Karl Gunzer:

Mean, like, it just about completely stopped it. So I realized it was obviously doing something, and that's not a very scientific experiment or anything else, but probably not not a peer reviewed study. However, it was my study,

Nathan Ratchford:

and I can tell you

Karl Gunzer:

It worked. I stand by it. Yeah. So

Nathan Ratchford:

I do it for all my all my dogs when I travel too, and I I think it makes a huge

Karl Gunzer:

difference. You

Nathan Ratchford:

know? Yep. So, yeah, that's that's good stuff to have on handy if especially if you're a duck hunter who likes to travel. Yes. Know, having some Fortiflora.

Karl Gunzer:

Yep. Yep. Like I

Matt Harrison:

say And I

Nathan Ratchford:

think that's an important point that you mentioned too, priming them a few days before travel. Yes. Because same thing, getting that through their system. Yep. You know?

Karl Gunzer:

Yeah. For some for most for for some dogs, travel is not terribly stressful, but I would say for the majority of dogs, it is stressful traveling. I mean, they're either confined or, you know, bounce around, they're they're off their routine. You know, if you had a bunch of dogs, like when we would go compete, you know, there's dogs barking and different things going on, they're not sleeping well. So I truly think that putting them on a probiotic like that is super helpful.

Matt Harrison:

Yeah. Alright. We're gonna head to a break after talking. A lot of information about dogs, and we're gonna dive right back into some more questions for mister Carl, and we're gonna talk about cold weather and how important it is to keep a really close eye on your dog. You're not gonna wanna miss this, so stay tuned.

Matt Harrison:

We'll be right back with you.

VO:

Stay tuned to the Ducks Unlimited podcast, sponsored by Purina Pro Plan and Bird Dog Whiskey after these messages.

Matt Harrison:

Alright, and we're back. Thank you so much for tuning back in to the Duck Sonata Podcast. We're gonna get right back to it. And we've been talking about nutrition. It's been some really insightful, helpful information I know to myself and many other listeners, but we're gonna shift a little bit from nutrition and talk about some cold weather and what it offers challenge wise to dogs and some things to look for with that.

Matt Harrison:

We know duck season, typically speaking, is cold weather, especially in the Northern part of The United States, you get some really cold, you know, temperatures. Even in the South, we get some mornings that it's 25 degrees, and it's cold, right? And so what are some things waterfowl hunters can look for in their dog as far as fatigue goes, and as far as low energy goes? What should they be looking for in their dog whenever they're out hunting as far as hunting in cold weather?

Karl Gunzer:

Yep. I'd say the biggest thing, just like we start to shake and shiver, if you've ever seen a cold dog, it's pretty obvious they're sitting there, you know, shaking, shivering. Now sometimes, so this is where it takes a little bit of maybe thoughtfulness, sometimes they can shiver and be excited from excitement. You know what I mean? Just like you might be excited, a dog can be the same way, but odds are, you know, if it's below 40 degrees or fifty forty, the dog's wet, they're sitting there, if the water's not getting off of them, they can get cold.

Karl Gunzer:

You know, it doesn't have to be below freezing for a dog to get cold. If they're in the water a lot, I would really encourage people to try and make sure they have some way for a dog to Get out of the water. Get out of the water, get dried off. You know, most dog stands, the water runs off, but if, you know, like a kennel cot or like those little mow marsh stands or something where when the dog's laying there next to you, that water can drip off and they're not sitting in water. You know, anytime, like, if you're in a pit blind and you got one the little metal hides on the side, make sure that there's something that that water gets off the dog.

Karl Gunzer:

It really helps, you know, they make these chamois like a or just use a towel, but the chamois, you know, you can squeeze it out. Yeah. I know Avery makes them, I don't know who else might make them, but it's a it's great. It's like, I think they call it a dogsorber.

Matt Harrison:

Yeah.

Karl Gunzer:

And just wipe, you know, wipe the dog off, kinda get them dried off so that that fur is not just matted against And then of course, a vest. That's what I was thinking. I mean, that's kind of maybe the first step, but sometimes they can still be pretty darn cold with a vest on. You know, you need to reach underneath that vest and feel like it, feel your dog's belly, and you'll you'll be able to feel, and I guess that's probably one of the first things that, you know, if they're shaking and cold, put your hands on them and feel what they feel like. And then if they're getting cold and shivering a lot, you know, probably one of the easiest, best things is just to get them, you know, bring a bumper or something like that and run them a little bit, get them moving.

Karl Gunzer:

It's the long swims that like suck the cold out of them, you know, those if they're immersed in the water for a long swim, those swims really deplete the heat out of them. So I think that's the biggest time to to worry about warming them back up.

Matt Harrison:

Wow. Yeah. I've been on some hunts, like you said, where it's cold and, you know but then I've also been on some hunts where the dog they'll see some ducks barking and they need to start shaking. Yeah. You know, looking.

Karl Gunzer:

They're like,

Matt Harrison:

are you cold? Yeah. Yeah. Are you that excited? Or

Karl Gunzer:

I think that's where you feel them. You know what I mean? You can kinda tell more by putting your hands on them. If it's really cold and you take your hand out of your glove and you put them on, you'll see how cold what what they gotta

Nathan Ratchford:

deal looking for excessive shaking. Right? Mean, because they're gonna be shaking to some degree no matter what. Right? They don't want people getting alarmed with that, but it's yeah.

Nathan Ratchford:

When it's you're like, okay.

Karl Gunzer:

Yeah.

Nathan Ratchford:

This is it's been shaking for thirty minutes.

Karl Gunzer:

Yeah. Or they start getting, like, acting a little lethargic or they start acting Yes. A little Yeah. That's for sure. It's sort of like the it's sort of like the heat thing, you know, you sort of it's a scale and they can get warm as long as they can get cooled back off.

Karl Gunzer:

They can get a little cold as long as they can get warm back up, but if they're The only time I've truly ever seen a dog that I thought truly had hypothermia and was in danger was it was We were pheasant hunting in South Dakota with somebody, and this was a guy in our group and the dog had run, he put him back in the crate in the back of the pickup truck, and it got cold and the crate was kind of wet in there. And we drove back to the hotel and the guy went to get the dog out and that dog was literally cold. I mean, you could tell that that dog was hypothermic. It had been wet in that crate. It wasn't a Labrador, I think it was a wire haired or something, but so I always tell people, make sure never put them back up in a crate wet, cold.

Karl Gunzer:

Yeah. I mean, don't, If they're cold, don't put them back in a crate. Yeah. That's where I think more likely something happened because you don't have your eyes on them. If they're sitting next you in the blind and they start getting disoriented or, you know, acting really cold or something's weird, you'll see it.

Karl Gunzer:

But if they're in the back of that crate, you know, they had worked all day, they got cold, you didn't think about it, they got in the crate, you drive home

Nathan Ratchford:

Yeah.

Karl Gunzer:

You know, the temperature's dropping, I think that's where Yeah. It gets it's more concerning.

Matt Harrison:

Is there any just overall degree of weather that you're like, no shot in taking a dog in that? Like, is there a number that

Nathan Ratchford:

That question. How cold is too cold?

Matt Harrison:

And I know that there's factors

Karl Gunzer:

in that. Number or is that the dog's number? My number is about zero. I'm pretty sure after zero

Matt Harrison:

And I know there's factors into that. You know? Like, if you're not gonna be if you're hunting a dry field and you got a great kennel he can get in and stay warm, maybe you could take him out a little bit worse conditions versus if you're gonna be in a pond that's got an ice eater in it and, you know, it's keeping the water open, but it's negative 10. Like, you don't wanna take your dog out in that. But is there a a number that Carl Gunzer says, I'm not taking a dog?

Karl Gunzer:

I'm gonna do my best politician answer here, and I'm gonna say probably not a particular Number. Number.

Nathan Ratchford:

Yeah. Yeah. There's a roach on a Chesapeake Bay.

Karl Gunzer:

Now yeah. Here's what I'll say. What about this number? Like, where does your dog live? So that's why I don't like that number.

Karl Gunzer:

Like, if your dog lives in your house, which I'm all for, don't don't get me wrong, but you keep it at 72 degrees

Matt Harrison:

That's what he's accustomed

Karl Gunzer:

to. And then you go out. That's a lot different than a dog that lives outside, lives in a kennel. Now, obviously, in that outside kennel, he's gotta have warm bedding and stuff, but that dog will acclimate to colder weather just like they acclimate to heat. You know, you guys know down here, you bring a dog from up north and you bring it down here to dove hunt.

Karl Gunzer:

I mean, it's kinda like

Nathan Ratchford:

Just like us. Yeah. I spent my first two years here in front of an AC.

Karl Gunzer:

Yeah. Yeah. So so, you know, every dog is different, but it makes a big difference if that dog is a house dog or a kennel dog. Yeah. So, you know

Matt Harrison:

Good answer.

Karl Gunzer:

Zero might be fine for that kennel dog. It might be way too cold. It might be way too cold for your 72 and sunny dog.

Matt Harrison:

Yeah. Yeah. That's a good

Nathan Ratchford:

and it's a great point too about the long swims, you know? Like, if you don't need to send your dog, you know, like, it's right there lying, you know, you don't need to have them in the water every time. Yeah. Especially on those really cold days. Yep.

Nathan Ratchford:

You know, that that cold water just zaps

Matt Harrison:

them. Yeah.

Nathan Ratchford:

Yeah. Yeah.

Karl Gunzer:

I think the best thing is if if they're, you know, if you're doing some retrieves in that cold water is find a way to get them warm in between, even get a chunk of the wind. On the land a little bit. Yeah. Absolutely. You know, they don't feel windchill like we do, but it still affects them.

Karl Gunzer:

You know what mean? It's a little different. It's it's still evaporating that air off of them.

Matt Harrison:

Mhmm. Mhmm. Are your favorite go to routines for recovery post hunt?

Karl Gunzer:

Me? I like usually a cocktail and no. No. I'm here for the dog. Oh, okay.

Karl Gunzer:

No. I'm good. I think warm food and sleep. I mean, I don't like I said, there used to be some different supplements to try and do some glycogen replacement. There's still some brands out there that make it, and if you have a dog that, you know, you're having a hard time getting water or weight on, you're working them every day, would say that's worth looking into, whether it's it's like a maltodextrin type deal.

Karl Gunzer:

Yeah. But that that's a good strategy to get energy back in a dog that's working hard day after Sleep food. Yep. Yep.

Matt Harrison:

Yeah. That's good. Same way with us.

Karl Gunzer:

Yes. Yeah.

Matt Harrison:

Give me give me a biscuit. Yeah. So a fire and a bed after I run, and I'm good to go.

Karl Gunzer:

Warm glass of milk. That's, yeah, that's what I like.

Matt Harrison:

Now, Alright. We talked a little bit ago about how there are some people I'm sure listen, first time dog owners. Right? What is the most common mistake you see first time dog owners make?

Karl Gunzer:

I would say so dogs are situational, so there can be dogs that can listen great in a house and terrible in a blind or great in a blind and terrible in a house, but I would say overall, dogs like things to be consistent. And I think, you know, people think about training and they think about taking the dog out with a bunch of bumpers and throwing marks or working on stating this in the field, and that's what they perceive as training. But every time they're interacting with that dog that lives in their house, they're training. And so you can get a lot done when you're not training by making a dog go to a place, making it wait before you open the door, making it be quiet, making it wait before you feed it, those kind of things. And I think a lot of people think of training as a specific

Nathan Ratchford:

Formal thing.

Karl Gunzer:

Formal job and it really it's more of a it's a lifestyle. It's it's it's, you know

Nathan Ratchford:

100%.

Karl Gunzer:

Yeah. It's all the time. So I think maybe that's the the biggest thing. I'm not a huge fan of, like, what I call mindless exercise, so I don't personally, I never liked fun bumpers. I think, a, I've seen a lot of dogs, good ones, get hurt, shoulders, ankle, you know, wrist, whatever, because a fun bumper, they just rip out there and grab it and turn and do things, and so I think structured fun and always making the dog do something to get something.

Karl Gunzer:

I mean, that's and dogs love that. Like, it's, you know, it's chaining. It's Pavlov's dogs. It's it's the way their little minds work is do something to get something. And once they have that, like, all the fun happens through you.

Karl Gunzer:

Yeah. It's not going out here and sniffing and chasing other dogs. It's like, oh, wait a minute, Matt gives me fun, you know?

Nathan Ratchford:

Yeah.

Karl Gunzer:

Nathan gives me fun. And so they become tuned in with you. And so I think kind of the biggest thing is just focusing on training and not just everyday life.

VO:

Yeah.

Nathan Ratchford:

Yep. And I think people underestimate how much those fun bumpers can bring back their steadiness too. You know? Yeah. Like, they're used to just three seconds and name and every retrieve is mine and blah blah blah, and dogs just you'll see that steadiness slip.

Nathan Ratchford:

Yep. You know?

Karl Gunzer:

Yep. I would rather just make them do something every time, be steady every time, you know, have them sit, throw the bumper, call them to you, then go get it, or just different things so that it doesn't become a routine, if it just becomes mindless excitement. And you see that in, you know, you ever watch like fly ball or fast cat or some of those deals? It's just endorphin. Like that dog is just in full out prey chase.

Karl Gunzer:

It's not really thinking anymore, it's

Matt Harrison:

just- Reacting.

Karl Gunzer:

Reacting. Yeah.

Nathan Ratchford:

And as a result, you're not challenging the dog too.

Karl Gunzer:

Right. There's no mental aspect to it, it's only physical. Exactly. And, you know, I have started riding horses now is what I've been competing in and messing with, and if ever there was a case of needing to stay into their mind. Yep.

Karl Gunzer:

You know, you learn that with the horses too of, you know, it's kind of like the old joke, if your horse is having fun, you probably aren't. It's kind of that way, the dogs can have fun, but it still should be structured fun.

Nathan Ratchford:

Yeah. Yeah. And you get a, you know, a Labrador from a good hunting line, and you do that too much. I mean, lot people, like, oh, just dog needs exercise. That is just yeah.

Nathan Ratchford:

I mean, you hear that all

Karl Gunzer:

the time. That's exactly

Nathan Ratchford:

And you'll have a dog who's way more stimulated all the time because to your point, it's just that compulsion, like, oh, retrieve, retrieve, retrieve. Yes. And there's no thought behind it. And as a result, I mean, there's no mental fatigue, which is so important, right? Yep.

Nathan Ratchford:

A dog like, if you challenge a dog with a retrieve that they have to really think about navigating cover or maintaining a line or whatever, you'll see the dog you could do way less, right, as far as time, and your dog will be exhausted.

Karl Gunzer:

I could not agree with you more.

Nathan Ratchford:

You know? Yeah.

Karl Gunzer:

I don't think I could put it any better either. That's exactly right.

Nathan Ratchford:

Yeah. Something I'm learning now with my my one year old.

Karl Gunzer:

Child or Chesapeake?

Nathan Ratchford:

Lav. Oh,

Matt Harrison:

man. Well, we've thrown some hard questions at you. Got a couple fun questions here from the end of the podcast. You've been around the game a long time, seen a lot of good dogs. What is the most unforgettable dog that you've ever worked with or trained?

Matt Harrison:

There's gotta be one. Tough one.

Karl Gunzer:

There's a couple. Like, there's

Matt Harrison:

a Come on.

Nathan Ratchford:

There's gotta Alright. Be

Karl Gunzer:

Probably man, I don't know. There's been it's not many great ones, but there's a couple. The one dog, his name was Bowie. He actually sired a national field champion. He was not one.

Karl Gunzer:

He never finished a national. He broke in the night series of a national one time in really good shape, but he was really just an amazing marker. Like, he he could remember birds. He won his first open. He had both cruise ships done, like, as a two year old.

Karl Gunzer:

So he missed a lot of young foundational time, but he was a phenomenal marker. And unfortunately, between his cruise ships and then he ended up with a bad shoulder and all this stuff, he was kind of a physical nightmare, but he was just an amazing his memory was amazing, and I'll never forget the first open he won. It was like the hardest open I think I've ever seen, and it was his only it was the second open to run. So the first open, I lost him on the water blind in the first series and then or in the third series. And the second open, he won.

Karl Gunzer:

It was in Utah, and it was just this huge mark. No other dogs even really came close to it, and he just stepped on it. It was just phenomenal. So Colonel Bowie's Revenge was

Matt Harrison:

Colonel Bowie. Yeah. Revenge.

Karl Gunzer:

That's a cool other dog that actually won two Canadian nationals, he never won a US national, NightWings Marsh leader, they called him Guide. And

Matt Harrison:

Oh, that's a cool name.

Karl Gunzer:

He was he was really amazing. He he was a field champion at either two or three, but but he was phenomenal as well.

Matt Harrison:

I've never been around a dog of that nature.

Karl Gunzer:

Mhmm.

Matt Harrison:

This may be a dumb question.

Karl Gunzer:

Yeah.

Matt Harrison:

You may

Karl Gunzer:

be like, ah.

Matt Harrison:

No. But were those two dogs that you just mentioned, were they just all time competitors or were they also one that was a loving dog as far as was it one you could put in your truck and he would wanna ride with you and love on you, or no, they were because I've heard that a lot of those dogs that they're just they're on this earth to do one thing, and that is do his job.

Karl Gunzer:

Yep. So Buoy, he came to me basically as a mostly kennel dog. He was in the house some. He didn't live in our house, you know, but he could be in the house and as he got older, he would come in. But I can tell you that that guide dog, as a two and three year old, he was in our house and he would lay there just crashed out like he was the most chill dog ever.

Karl Gunzer:

So he had a switch. And then, yeah, he for sure had a switch. Wow. And I think most of them do. If they if they kind of are a house dog as a young dog and they learn that routine, they sort of never forget it.

Karl Gunzer:

Know, if they're a house broke young and they get it, they they know and they like it.

Nathan Ratchford:

And to your I mean, to what we talked about before, if they're getting the right training. Right? Yeah.

Matt Harrison:

I don't All they know is ramp, ramp,

Nathan Ratchford:

You know?

Karl Gunzer:

I don't let them be an idiot in the house either. You know what mean? One of two things that are happening, they're either gonna get trained or they're gonna get kicked out.

Matt Harrison:

Gotta tell us.

Karl Gunzer:

Yeah. But I think that's I would encourage, and, you know, these dogs, they have, you know, you own them year round, you get sixty days of duck hunting or whatever you do, you know, no matter what, even if you field trial. Could there be some cases that you could argue for them like, hey, they'd have less bad habits if they live in a kennel. They'd be more acclimated if they live in a kennel, all that. I think you'd miss so much from the whole human animal experience that I'm a big advocate of All my dogs live in the house, and they may have a kennel some too, but

Matt Harrison:

I feel like it's a little bit different of a bond when they

Karl Gunzer:

You bet.

Matt Harrison:

Do live in

Karl Gunzer:

the house. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Matt Harrison:

Alright. What's one piece of advice that you would give to a first time dog owner? And you can think on that for a second if you need to. Second's up. That's a curveball.

Karl Gunzer:

I forgot. I was gonna look at these questions for you. So if you're, you know, buying a dog, a first time dog owner, you're buying a dog, research the the puppy and don't worry. I mean, the puppy price is the least is the most inexpensive thing in the whole Yep. Equation.

Karl Gunzer:

So, like, don't go, oh, man. There's really good breeding for $2,000, but this one's 1,000, so I'm gonna buy it. Don't, You know, buy the best puppy. I would absolutely do your research, look at the parents, see what their disposition's like, learn more about their parents. I always said you never really know a dog until you know it in training.

Karl Gunzer:

You know, you'd see some dogs at field trials and they could be outstanding, but they took a lot of training to get there. And there's other dogs that are just kind of easier to train, more natural. I would say, look at the parents if, you know, if at all possible and try and see what they're like. I'll I'll tell you another that became a big thing for me is I don't like aggressive dogs. I mean, they shouldn't be aggressive.

Karl Gunzer:

There are some dogs that, you know, you always have to worry about or watch. Stay away from that, and, like, don't buy if a dog's sire or whatever shows aggressive tendencies, whatever the breed, that's not something you need to worry about as a hunting dog. You're gonna go hunting with other friends, be around other dogs. That's just a

Matt Harrison:

Especially if you're a first time dog. Yeah. I feel like having one that was aggressive would be a whole different

Karl Gunzer:

It's rough.

Nathan Ratchford:

Learning curve. Yeah.

Karl Gunzer:

So it's hard. So amazingly, I couldn't tell you the last time that I got a dog that didn't have enough retrieve drive. Like, if you buy a dog from field trial lines, and and I never had British dogs, I only did US field trials. I have trained a few British dogs since then. All of them have had drive, maybe not as much, but they've all had plenty of drive to be hunting dogs.

Karl Gunzer:

So I don't see that as as big of a deal as it used to be. Just seems like they all tend to

Nathan Ratchford:

Yeah.

Matt Harrison:

Have that job.

Karl Gunzer:

Yeah. And maybe don't overdo it, you know, do more little training stuff than just throwing bumpers and throwing dummies and chasing wings.

Nathan Ratchford:

This is more.

Karl Gunzer:

Yeah. Yeah. Don't shoot over them when they're puppies, you know. Yeah. Do do all that stuff Yeah.

Nathan Ratchford:

Could spend the next

Karl Gunzer:

half hour. Right? Yeah. That yeah. That's a rabbit hole.

Karl Gunzer:

But I guess, you know, if they're gonna be hunting dog, they gotta be able to do two things. They gotta like birds and they can't be gun shy. So don't mess that up from the start. Right? Yeah.

Karl Gunzer:

Be careful not to make them gun shy and do a proper introduction to birds because that's a lifelong deal right there.

Nathan Ratchford:

Yeah. And one thing I think first timers could get a little hung up on is tending to look to others. Right? Like they look at their friend who's got a four month old doing, you know, a 100 yard memory or something like Every dog is different. You bet.

Nathan Ratchford:

You know? So just enjoy it. Don't put that pressure on yourself, you know? Absolutely. Just think you get too much.

Nathan Ratchford:

It's the same thing with people on social media. Like, it's you're looking at your friends doing this stuff, and that's just focus on the dog in front of you, you know, enjoy them. Yeah.

Karl Gunzer:

That's yeah. They don't I look I look at those same pile of pictures, and I go, man, I I get about one of those a year and

Nathan Ratchford:

about yeah. Yeah.

Karl Gunzer:

Don't post the other 30

Matt Harrison:

hunts. Yeah. No. Well, Carl, thank you so much Yeah. For hopping on the podcast.

Matt Harrison:

Nathan, thank you for joining us as and also thank you so much to our producer, Chris Isaac, for making all this happen, and we wanna thank you to our listeners for taking time to listen to the Ducks Unlimited podcast. But y'all stay tuned because here in a couple days, we got a really cool episode coming out around Thanksgiving that is talking about gear, Good holiday Thanksgiving memories. You won't wanna miss it. Make sure you stay tuned to the Ducks Unlimited podcast.

VO:

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VO:

Be sure to rate, review, and subscribe to the show and visit ducks.org/dupodcast. Opinions expressed by guests do not necessarily reflect those of Ducks Unlimited. Until next time, stay tuned to the Ducks.